Read this: Grouping for Karazhan/Zul'Aman!

As we have grown a lot the last couple of weeks we are now looking for a player/a few players who want to Raid Lead a second group to Karazhan. If you're interested please post a comment on this thread. The job will be managing the raid and the loot as well as informing about tactics.

The background is that we feel that mixing the groups a lot, but not having enough players able to commit for both wednesday and sunday, wasn't a good plan. We now need a few of the "newer" members to step in and try to organise a second group. Of course we will work together with tactics and so on but the "original" members would like to move on to ZA at this point as we have been struggling with Karazhan for 8-10 weeks now already.

Any thoughts/questions about organising raids this way? Post comments!

//Ghar

No problems with that except im still in for running kara and i dont think we have struggled with it either (original grp). There are still drops that i wish to posses from kara and i dont even think we are ready for ZA yet. I believe that we should establish a second raid leader to be responsable for the other grp, maybe even arranging it for a different day if nessecery. I am not in agreement with moving on to ZA as of yet and would like to clear kara alot more than we have done, lets face it we have only done it once.

I've just read my post again and I realise I didn't make all that much sense..

My point actually was that we are not ready to leave Karazhan and I want to keep farming it too, but I would like to go back to the initial grouping since we have been playing together for some time now and mixing us up did not feel right somehow, and if we have 14-something people online on sunday wanting to clear Karazhan but are saved to different raids, I think it's wrong.

My suggestion is we do Karazhan as usual but adds a second group for our newer guild mates and starts looking at ZA one night a week or something. Since ZA resets after a couple of days instead of once every week the ZA-raid can be done on different nights. This way we just need someone to step up to organise the second group and then we can help that group with tactics and so on. Of course it will take a couple of wipes to learn but we all need to walk that way..

hmmm need to do kara with a regular team as quite afew ppl missed out on lots of easy loot and badges because of running two groups that wernt prepared to join with there saved group on sunday to finish the raid. also ppl really need to use tyhe calendar as i have recives quite a few pms from ppl annoyed that they cant attend because someone has signed so then others plan something else and the the person who signed dosnt bother to turn up or leave part way through.

yes our original group can prolly clear that on regular bases now but that will upset other guild members who will struggle to take out say moroes. Need 2 or more regular raid leaders to can organised ppl to do this.

also id throw my hat into the ring for leading but i have tryed over past 2 weeks to set ZA up for tonight(has been on calendar for about 2weeks) and most decided to go last night so it fuckes my plan to take a the strongest team we can muster to see how we fair at this point. Reiterates y every member needs to use the calendar.

we need to divert back to our original groups altho this will be complex in its self as the group consists of about 12-14 ppl and because of work commitment's we have to try and keep our grp of 12-14 ppl. We need to try and mirror this for the other team and must try our best. At the end of the day we do want to do 25 man content so we cant leave our guildies in the dust even if they cant do both days. I do have a suggestion, we could do runs in one sitting maybe on a saturday at about lunch time. lost my way with the rest of this to be honest not sure what i was going on about plzx post more info on this forum about days and times u are free

My suggestion would be to form 1 strong team for ZA once a week, and organize 2 fixed days per week for Kara runs. I know that for those of you who have finshed Kara and want to do something more challenging, it is not super fun to keep having to organize Kara runs and wipe at bosses that you know you can one-shot with a better group. In addition, the whole organizing gets to be an extra pain in the ass when people don't show up and things like that. But continuing Kara is the only way to get enough people ready for 25-man instances (and to make ZA easier as well). Guildies who want to do 25-man raids, have to realize it is only possible if everyone puts in some effort and takes it seriously.

For the Kara runs, the experienced, strong group could devide in two, fill both groups up with those of us who need to learn and use a fair rotation system if needed. Like one week, persons A,B,C,D,E do Kara twice (so they see/learn all bosses), the next week they sit out and persons F,G,H,I,J do Kara. And once a week, the strong group gets together to have their private wipe party at ZA Or more often, if they want to.

So I'd say: set those two fixed days for Kara and make clear to people that they have to show up if they have signed up, and in time, repaired and with consumables. Then see how things go. If that does not work out, it is time to think of a new approach/solution.

Ok guys, with the guild growing we really need some people to throw their hat in and say "i can lead a raid group", at present we have a very composed and calculated 10-12 man kara group but ofc we need more to be succesful.

Any1 who knows the raid well needs to build a second/third raid group or whatever u get my drift? please have a little think "EVERYONE" about raiding and why you do it and what you want from it and i suggest we all be procative on how we approach it and not reactive to the insrtuction of certain pivotal guild members

/discuss

I agree with you Hell, and I can't really see any other problems than just getting someone who want to lead a second group - most of our guild members are more than enough geared for clearing Karazhan, we have a good variety of classes/roles and we have people with good Karazhan experience.

Actually, I see one more problem - communication. I bet not even one third of us are using this forum and in-game communication about these sort of issues are minimum.

But other than that we are set for conquests and glory..

agree ghar m8 most dont use forum,vent,calendar or even speak in game about this kinda stuff i get the impression that some ppl expect a free ride and just expect to be included in events.

Yeah, if members never speaks up, never visits our forum, never tries to organise or even downloads Group Calender (even after we've been asking everyone to) I think we'll always have to drag them into raids and so on - and I don't have the time or energy to do that.

I'm hoping to see a few of the newer players taking some responsibility over their own time and start organising and asking around about raiding (like Sokaris is doing). It's not that I do not want to help or neglect people, I just want to see someone ask "Can you please help me getting a second group going? I can lead it, but as I don't know many of the other players it could be a good thing if someone of you guys who've been in the guild a bit longer, helps me getting started.." or something like that..

Call me lazy if you want, but I just don't wanna spend my in-game time on persuading people to raid..

I werent in sunday run or the wednesday one, but imo the grp we ran with then did ok. Ofc i have some own thoughts about speccs and gear :p but we did quite good nevertheless, but that was mainly because we wiped 2 times or so But if we are to have several grps peeps should specc somehow as it fits the grp imo, i dont know about the rest but my morale drops quite low if i see the raid is not especially balanced :p And grats on downing a ZA boss btw

I had a very enjoyable run on Wednesday and I think the guy who is leading Group 2 is a very good raidleader. I hope he will continue doing this, but like I wrote before: people have to come prepared with potions and buff food, repaired, and be online on time.
I also think people are responsible for their own potions and buff food; especially when they are new in a guild it should not be so that they can just get everything for free or for a little bit of gold. One has to prove his/her worth, love and devotion first

The second run yesterday was quite a bit tougher, since most of us encountered bosses we had never done before. The group was probably not perfect for these bosses, gear-wise and the combination of classes, but I personally think it is cool that we at least try. Imo, all the talk about how certain bosses that can only be done with a certain composition of classes etc, it trollshit anyways. But that could be me just being very stubborn about this

Looking forward to the next raid, although I am not sure yet if I have the energy to continue Kara tonight. Am curious how things look for tomorrow when Gruul's Lair is planned...

Oh and one last thing: wiping goes with the learning process. We are doing Kara to gear up, which means most of us (me included) are not geared up properly atm, which means we have a higher risk to wipe. Just normal, also happened in the old content raids. It is not good for moral, but I know that after a hard boss has been put six foot under, it gives such a positive boost that the wiping is completely worth it